donthuang 发表于 2016-4-4 15:22:36

重聽K812

本帖最后由 donthuang 于 2016-4-4 16:27 编辑

因緣際會,拿到副老版的K812,簡單條列第一印象

1.似乎是在特定增益以上的條件下,才能有效壓制低頻上段的突起
而這關係到對K812頻段平衡的根本評價

2.聲音的質地似乎 比當初試聽的時候還要薄些,或者我已經先習慣了 T1 濃密,極彩色的聲音洪水那樣的呈現方式吧?

這可能牽涉到 音質層面的 密度 與 重量感 認知差異

K812的餘音收得比較快,所以聲音線條聽起來明瞭,分明
但沒有T1那種層層交疊的豐富感,或者織體感

中高頻的光澤感比當初的印象好不少,類似的光澤,光潤感,可能K701/K3003上面都有
營造出一種清麗,清爽的感覺

3.空間感介於T1和HD800之間,在音場高度上 比T1好,但與印象中的HD800還有差距
以寬闊,或者左右無限延伸出去的感覺而言,比印象中的HD800好,但不如T1

耳機還在暖身中,詳細的比較印象留待後續



caileiqing 发表于 2016-4-4 19:24:25

确实,812要求驱动特性很紊合才能发挥。简单说就是难推好。。。

donthuang 发表于 2016-4-5 00:03:47

本帖最后由 donthuang 于 2016-4-5 00:38 编辑

如果說耳機的"聲音型態"和腔體設計是掛鉤的

那麼K812和以往的K701,K702的確有一脈相承之處,或者說,聲音發出來、擴散出來的方式
聲音略薄這點應該是暖機程度的關係

暖機足夠之後,K812骨肉勻稱,以武打明星來類比的話,類似甄子丹那樣

不過,harman的AKG,不見得跟以往的AKG是完全相同的
或者,harman入主以後的新AKG,其實影響比燒友們預期的還大

K812的聲音一言以蔽之,細緻,直接,龐大

特別是細緻這點,一直讓我想起"新"JBL或Mark Levinson......

清新 发表于 2016-4-5 03:57:40

本帖最后由 清新 于 2016-4-5 04:30 编辑

楼主犀利,感觉句句分析在骨髓里。但有两点看不太明白,可否仔细说说?
1)为何说K812略薄是暖机的问题?既然对照的是T1,是否意味着812比T1略薄?
2)“1.似乎是在特定增益以上的條件下,才能有效壓制低頻上段的突起”。低频上段的突起指的是啥?如何从音乐欣赏的角度来判断?
谢谢。

另:我的812也是老版(5k多号),同hd800比起来的确薄和清瘦不少。但hd800其实还是略厚的,所以不能因此断定812是否真的薄。但即使同Srh1840这幅中频几乎被校音成一条直线的监听耳机比起来也常有略薄抑或清瘦的感觉。我的系统(naim unitilite一体机)是略偏暖厚声的,而且从不关机。

donthuang 发表于 2016-4-5 04:32:03

本帖最后由 donthuang 于 2016-4-5 04:42 编辑

清新 发表于 2016-4-5 03:57
楼主犀利,感觉句句分析在点子上。但有两点看不太明白,可否仔细说说?
1)为何说K812略薄是暖机的问题? ...
正常發揮的T1,豐厚的中頻是一大特色
而那種豐厚是聲音的餘音,泛音重重交疊導致的,屬於Beyer的獨特風格

其他廠家大概很難呈現這樣的聲音

不過這並不意味K812的聲音細瘦

K812初開聲 聲音線條略顯細瘦,主要是相對於起音,
餘音沒有充分展開,所以初開聲時,有線條,有骨架,然無足夠的"肌肉"或"脂肪"支撐

這點是暖機的問題,或者單體有沒有被充分驅動過

第二點,其實就是指K812需要耳擴用高增益的設定驅動,借轉隔壁的圖








這是隔壁的網友andygaof做的測試,前端皆為MAC MINI > YGG > RAG
三張圖的差別在於增益大小

可以看出中低頻段並沒有太大差異,但是中高頻受增益大小影響不小
低增益L 中增益M 這兩檔中高頻明顯過渡不順,反映在聽感上,就是低頻上段突出,中高頻細瘦突出開不大聲

可能的原因? 可能增益要足夠,單體前後運動才足夠長/劇烈,讓腔體自帶的聲學衰減效果生效

mvw 发表于 2016-4-5 08:00:00

donthuang 发表于 2016-4-5 04:32
正常發揮的T1,豐厚的中頻是一大特色
而那種豐厚是聲音的餘音,泛音重重交疊導致的,屬於Beyer的獨特風 ...

哦,原来如此,果然这低阻机器不容易对付。

donthuang 发表于 2016-4-5 13:20:38

http://www.akg.com/pro/p/k872

恩恩.....K812封閉版? 好歹也出個家用版啊 =3=

mvw 发表于 2016-4-5 14:13:26

donthuang 发表于 2016-4-5 13:20
http://www.akg.com/pro/p/k872

恩恩.....K812封閉版? 好歹也出個家用版啊 =3=

哇哦,812真身啊 呵呵 不过感觉这样子是没812好看啊。

FFFKKJ 发表于 2016-4-5 17:31:52

donthuang 发表于 2016-4-5 13:20
http://www.akg.com/pro/p/k872

恩恩.....K812封閉版? 好歹也出個家用版啊 =3=

wow 好喜欢这个封闭版的!

amex 发表于 2016-4-5 17:57:11

卧槽这奇葩的频响。。。

donthuang 发表于 2016-4-5 18:58:33

本帖最后由 donthuang 于 2016-4-5 18:59 编辑

正式新聞稿

AKG by HARMAN Debuts Flagship Closed-Back K872 Reference Headphones at Prolight + Sound 2016

Based on 70 years of expertise, K872 master reference headphones set the new benchmark for performance and comfort

PLS 2016, FRANKFURT—AKG by HARMAN today introduced the flagship closed-back K872 reference headphones at Prolight + Sound 2016 in Frankfurt. AKG designed the K872 for audio engineers and musicians who require the utmost accuracy and detail for critical recording, mixing, mastering and live sound engineering applications. Featuring custom components including a specially engineered 53 mm transducer, ultra-light open-mesh headband, slow-retention foam ear pads and a convenient carrying case/stand, the K872 combines superior sound quality with exceptional comfort and portability.

To deliver pure, powerful, ultra-detailed sound, the K872 utilizes a 53 mm transducer—the largest AKG has ever built. This driver was developed from the highly acclaimed K812 transducer, and ensures highest in-class headroom and dynamic range. Each K872 transducer employs a 1.5 Tesla magnet system, the strongest available today, providing highly accurate imaging and pristine, natural sound.

The K872 features a high-sensitivity copper-covered aluminum voice coil that extends sound beyond the limits of the human auditory system, spanning a full spectrum of frequencies. The ultra-lightweight two-layer voice coil ensures a superior impulse response and an extended frequency range from 5 Hz to 54 kHz, while delivering the lowest distortion level in class.

With newly designed closed-back ear cups, K872 headphones provide optimal isolation from external sound during critical monitoring applications. To provide exceptional personalized fit and comfort, the K872 features 3D-shaped slow-retention ear pads and a new quick-lock mechanism that maintains the right size for the wearer’s head shape. K872 headphones also feature all-metal cardan-type hinges to ensure maximum durability and a tight ear pad seal. The entire design works in concert to deliver unsurpassed comfort for long mixing and mastering sessions.

“The AKG K872 headphones leverage innovative driver design, along with superior mechanical and acoustic technologies to deliver superb response, exceptional comfort and long-lasting reliability,” said Peter Chaikin, Recording Solutions, HARMAN Professional Solutions. “These remarkable headphones illustrate our continual commitment to industry-leading performance and quality.”

The K872 is ideal for music production professionals seeking an accurate, transportable, highly detailed reference for critical monitoring in a range of recording, mixing and production applications. Live sound engineers will appreciate the high degree of isolation, detail and comfort that the K872 provides, which enhances their ability to focus on critical elements of the mix. Studio mixing and mastering professionals will benefit from the reference-quality audio K872 delivers in both studio and mobile production workflows. The headphones include a case that functions as both a headphone stand and a low-profile carrying bag that conveniently fits in a suitcase.

ABOUT HARMAN

HARMAN (harman.com) designs and engineers connected products and solutions for automakers, consumers and enterprises worldwide, including connected car systems, audio and visual products, enterprise automation solutions and connected services. With leading brands including AKG®, Harman Kardon®, Infinity®, JBL®, Lexicon®, Mark Levinson® and Revel®, HARMAN is admired by audiophiles, musicians and the entertainment venues where they perform around the world. More than 25 million automobiles on the road today are equipped with HARMAN audio and connected car systems. The Company's software services power billions of mobile devices and systems that are connected, integrated and secure across all platforms, from work and home to car and mobile. HARMAN has a workforce of approximately 28,000 people across the Americas, Europe and Asia and reported sales of $6.5 billion during the 12 months ended December 31, 2015. The Company’s shares are traded on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol NYSE:HAR.


ーーー

看來這是harman正式主導AKG產品線的宣示....Peter Chaikin之前是負責JBL專業產品線

donthuang 发表于 2016-4-10 04:50:50

本帖最后由 donthuang 于 2016-4-10 05:22 编辑

我很少談耳機在"硬素質"或”音響性”之類的話題

一方面,在一個水準以上,音響性的差距 遠不然音樂性的差異來的更決定性
另一方面,這好像蠻容易引戰的

我認為K812相對於T1與HD800,在音響性能上還是占一點優勢的
到了T1 2nd/HD800S時,恐怕就不好說了

K812在音響性上的優勢,主要體現在刻畫力度變化的能力,以及衍生的解析力
那不單純是反映多少聲音,多少細節,而是能成型,能扎根,能明確的能力

另一點則是低頻下潛,這倒是很有意思的對比

如果以低音單體來類比,T1,以及我印象中的HD800,都算是大口徑的那邊
發聲相對輕鬆,寬鬆,但是也有潛不那麼下去的情況

K812雖說是53mm單體,但是其中低頻到低頻上段的能量,並不像T1那麼豐腴,豐滿
而是像小口徑、長衝程的低音單體,以下潛和通透見長

前述的差異 可以說也導致了根本聲音型態與風格的差異
用個不洽當的類比,像是D罩杯和B罩杯的差別,順帶一提,HD800個人評估算C罩杯

一般印象是中低頻能量越豐腴,聲音規模越大,越有"氣勢",聲音越"厚"

很有意思的是,我並不覺得K812在聲音規模或框架有劣勢存在,或者聲音就比較"薄""瘦"
這似乎跟AKG的振膜有關...

我不知道AKG是不是繼續沿用既有的異厚振膜設計,不過K812的確巧妙的統合了清澈爽快的中高音,
厚韌扎實的中低音這兩種互相矛盾的特性──在振膜特性一致、速度同步的基礎上

可能比起頻段量感,還有其他更具關鍵性的變數,比如耳罩內,區域音壓變化的情況云云....
Grado?,上次聽PSK有一段時間了,沒辦法單憑印象對比

系統達到一個臨界點時,812可以忠實反映前端的音色,就像是水乳交融一樣
然而聲音型態/平衡恐怕不是那麼容易調整

我想一般燒友大概也不會在AKG的耳機上追求豐乳肥臀,不過還是稍微提醒一下

hardman_die 发表于 2016-4-10 12:46:48

看测试,跟奇葩啊。我个人试验,也觉得需要增益高点,控制力更强

mvw 发表于 2016-4-11 08:37:45

donthuang 发表于 2016-4-10 04:50
我很少談耳機在"硬素質"或”音響性”之類的話題

一方面,在一個水準以上,音響性的差距 遠不然音樂性的 ...
再次帮顶,我觉得812已经很有挣扎的意味了,就是akg在哈曼下最后一次挣扎,872基本上没什么疑问应该是akg退出历史舞台的作品。

希特勒阿道夫 发表于 2016-4-13 01:55:08

意即K812還不算是哈曼主導的嗎?
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