路易的欧罗巴 发表于 2019-8-19 12:53:35

声学知识之灵魂拷问,如果只能用2只喇叭,你选什么单元种类?

本帖最后由 路易的欧罗巴 于 2019-8-26 19:37 编辑

每个人都希望拥有一对完美的喇叭。
上可飞跃至20khz,下能潜到20周。




但理想是丰满的,事实是骨感的,

如果人生最后一对音箱,只能每只用2只喇叭单元。

你会选择哪两种单元呢?

喇叭类型:超高音负责7k-30khz以上,球顶高音3000-20k,号角高音1000-20000hz,

中音1k-5000 hz,全频100-10k hz,中低频50-2000hz,重低频单元30-300khz。

本来问题可以简单一些,但答案似乎是弱智和一致的,
那就是,如果只能是一只单元,肯定都选全频单元。
如果三只,不用脑子就回答,高中低三只单元嘛。

这样,始终无法让人反思,从最根本上,我们究竟最需要音箱做什么。

所以,

如果就只能选2只喇叭呢?

比如,是一只全频+超低音,还是全频+超高音呢?
这才具有让人反思,我们所需要的音箱,最根本的是什么。

你的回答是?

要注意的一点是,2000-5000 hz,甚至1000hz-6000hz,是人耳最敏感的区域,其实并不适合设置分频点,
让2只不同单元在这个频段有重合,及其容易让耳朵辨认出。

为什么人耳祖传在2000-500hz是最敏感的?
在这个区间中的声音并不多见。

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

答案是泛音,虽然一个成年人说话的基音在70-200hz,
但别忘了,还有泛音,泛音决定音色,可以辨认出不同的说话人,乐器也是。
就是200hz的基音,还伴有400hz,800hz,1600hz的泛音。

所以,2000hz-5000hz谁让人类去判断和区别。
如果这个频率段处理不佳,有分频点的话,音箱素质的上限就很低。

证据?
高素质的监听音箱,一般分频点都会避开2000-5000hz,大都选在几百和7000,8000hz。
从著名的JBL 43系列所有音箱,到丹拿声学最新的57音箱,都符合类似设计。


仔细想一下,
然后,你可能才会明白,
什么单元配置的音箱,才会是你最需要的。


bbfat49 发表于 2019-8-20 08:51:01

为什么非要有重合,避开这个频段分频不是更好么?

小白 发表于 2019-8-20 10:19:12

Full-range+Bass。对超高没有太多好感。

mifeng 发表于 2019-8-20 10:57:43

为啥只能用俩单元,没道理啊。
其实用三只单元也可能会有不同答案的。
如果非限定两只不可,我肯定是选择全频加炮,对摆位还有不少好处。

zsudicky 发表于 2019-8-20 11:00:56

但事实是,这世界上只有两个喇叭的音箱绝大多数形式正是在人耳最敏感的区域设置分频点的两分频,到底是为什么呢?

路易的欧罗巴 发表于 2019-8-21 08:08:46

本帖最后由 路易的欧罗巴 于 2019-8-21 08:17 编辑

zsudicky 发表于 2019-8-20 11:00
但事实是,这世界上只有两个喇叭的音箱绝大多数形式正是在人耳最敏感的区域设置分频点的两分频,到底是为什 ...
昨晚查阅资料(问了google),
发现扬声器分频设计,涉及到扬声器直径和扩散效果的公式。

音速340/D单元直径=F最高频率
所以考虑到扩散效果,对于大多数6/7寸低音单元,理论最高值无法超过2000hz。
但许多普通1寸的球顶高音,又无法平坦降低到2000hz。

所以,如今大多数2分频扬声器的折衷情况是,
拉高分频点,牺牲扩散性(中低频无法扩散成一个球形)。

但这还不是最致命的,
一旦把分频点(不同单元重合区域)设置在2000-5000hz内,
人耳很容易听出2个单元的不完美衔接,因为没有完美的重合 。
所以,一般扬声器,至少取3分频。

但最近,有一个老牌另起炉灶,
之前高级型号把分频点设置在5K,200hz,
现在单元设计改变,把点下移到了2000以下,再补上一只低音在200hz。
因为他用了唯一可能实现低于2000hz的的号角高音来负责中高,

不可为不高明!
姜,还是老的辣。





xy1689 发表于 2019-8-21 13:11:02

路易的欧罗巴 发表于 2019-8-21 08:08
昨晚查阅资料(问了google),
发现扬声器分频设计,涉及到扬声器直径和扩散效果的公式。



bmr就可以降到2000以下。

amex 发表于 2019-8-21 13:29:55

JBL那些号角不都是这么干的吗……靠号角拉低高音下限,然后中低分频在几百,然后去补超高
代价就是号角的染色

amex 发表于 2019-8-21 13:30:15

扩声箱更是了,两分频15寸满地跑

zsudicky 发表于 2019-8-21 14:03:05

路易的欧罗巴 发表于 2019-8-21 08:08
昨晚查阅资料(问了google),
发现扬声器分频设计,涉及到扬声器直径和扩散效果的公式。



全频单元的高音扩散效果不及专门高频单元,中频厚度(又或者是密度)又比不过专门的中频/中低频单元,有得有失

小白 发表于 2019-8-21 14:32:00

zsudicky 发表于 2019-8-21 14:03
全频单元的高音扩散效果不及专门高频单元,中频厚度(又或者是密度)又比不过专门的中频/中低频单元,有 ...

是的,但是那种浑然一体感非常难得,播放一些频响不宽的录音或者音乐类型,有独特的吸引力。

zsudicky 发表于 2019-8-22 10:08:52

小白 发表于 2019-8-21 14:32
是的,但是那种浑然一体感非常难得,播放一些频响不宽的录音或者音乐类型,有独特的吸引力。

我也很喜欢这种特质,全频非常适合做二奶系统

小白 发表于 2019-8-22 10:11:17

zsudicky 发表于 2019-8-22 10:08
我也很喜欢这种特质,全频非常适合做二奶系统

没错。最佳二奶。
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