目前最详尽的HD800配合放大器评测！对比010
http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/hd800-listening-experience-different-amps-sources-435311/各位HD800用家必读 :) 最后推荐讯源及耳放配合：
Nagra CDP + Chord QBD 76 + Rudistor RP010B MKII
which is, unfortunately, not very affordable ;P 果然是...... Nagra CDP > Chord QBD 76 > Rudistor RP010B MKII > HD800
>不是说接，而是说价格...大于号....
原文那位果然是米人啊= =b
Given more time, I should be able to compare how the HD800 against the rest of my collection – the Grado HP1-3, PS-1, the Edition 9, and my upcoming Edition 8.
[ 本帖最后由 flyinghail 于 2009-7-20 01:54 编辑 ] 原帖由 kanex 于 2009-7-20 01:26 发表 http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/images/common/back.gif
最后推荐讯源及耳放配合：
Nagra CDP + Chord QBD 76 + Rudistor RP010B MKII
which is, unfortunately, not very affordable ;P
作者不是指PHONITOR让他感觉最畅快吗？:L 干脆转贴过来算了：
This is a multi (4)-part posting as it may be too long as a single post.
I have always been delaying my decision on the HD800, worrying about the claimed ultra-resolution can make this headphone “boring” over time. A week ago, a very nice and generous local head-fier offered to let me have a good listen to his HD800, and throughout the week, I have the opportunity to put the HD800 through different amps and sources, and have a good comparison with my Qualia 010. The HD800 of my friend is actually quite new and it may not have been fully burned-in. I took notes of my impressions while listening, as well as keep a good record of the major CDs used during these listening sessions.
Instead of writing a full impression, I think it is better to just share the notes of what I heard on the spot, which reflects more of my impression; rather than doing a total recall of the whole week of listening. Please do caution that it is my own pair of ears so preference and impressions may not be the same as yours.
Enough has been said about the construction, comfort, and material used for the HD800 so I better skip this part and jump straight into my listening impressions. BTW, as English is not my native language so please bear with me with the lack of words and structure running down my write-up.
Before we go into the details, please note this is NOT intended to be a full review of the HD800. It is more like a sharing of personal listening impressions. All the gears and CDs, except the HD800, are owned by me. I have no association with any of the suppliers / manufacturers mentioned here below, other than being one of their customers sometime ago.
Session 1 : 4 July 2009 : HD800 + Woo Audio 5
Quite naturally the first listening session started with my most favourite tube amp in-house – my beloved Woo Audio 5, maxxed out, with a pair of Sophia Princess 287B rectifier tube, a pair of KR Audio 300B Globe, and a pair of Tung-Sol chrome top 6SN7GTB; connected to my Emm Labs CDSA SE. Interconnect is a pair of Gabriel Gold Revelation MKII – one of my favourite interconnect series. I listened to the HD800 through the high-Z headphone jack.
CD used was “Ten Tenors, Ten Colors” – a 2007 Japan edition of Venus TKCV-35404. This CD is a collection of extremely well recorded Tenor Sax Players works. On first listen, the HD800 does not display a character of its own. Sure, there is a lot of air around the players, the soundstage is impressively wide but realistic. The resolution was there, but it is not “ultra resolving” as some has claimed. I have listened to this same CD in the same setting for a few times, using the Qualia 010, and in my opinion, the Qualia is still king of resolution. The HD800 did not offer a jaw dropping experience, although I was indeed impressed by the 3-dimensional sound stage. the depth, and layering of music is particularly impressive.
Bass from the HD800 is natural, real, but not plentiful or excessive. Certainly there was no bass bloom of any kind. The bass was tonally correct, with excellent texture. The HD800 actually sound pretty slightly forward, but not in-your-face type. It is not as laid back as the HD650, and sound very easy to the ears. There was no harshness, no edgy, razor-sharp high resolution illusion. All nodes have its own place yet piece together in a very coherent manner.
The HD800 is also fast. Well, pretty fast, but not as fast as the Qualia. My particular pair still sound very slightly “tight” and I guess it may need more burning hours. So I just leave it playing overnight.
Overall, for the first evening, the HD800 behaved well balanced from treble to bass, with impressive extensions at both ends. At the very low registers, my ear can “feel” that low Hz. I must say the Woo Audio 5 helped to make this last bit come through, but it took something like the HD800 to make it to my ears. It was quite an enjoying evening, though not what I would call a revelation.
Session 2: 5 July 2009: HD800 + Rudistor RP010B MKII
Although it was a pleasure to listen to the HD800 through the Woo Audio 5, I somehow felt that it was not the best the HD800 can deliver. So I switch amp – to my Rudistor RP010B MKII. I used single end input from the Emm Labs CDSA SE, and used the high-Z headphone jack with the HD800.
I insert a pure SACD "A Wonderful World" by Tony Bennett & K.D. Lang. This is beautifully recorded pure SACD which does not play on red book player.
The HD800 delivers very live like, almost surreal resolution, quite different from what I heard through the Woo Audio 5. There was very good expression of emotions embedded in this very nice recording. The tender voices of "La Vie En Rose" were just like what you would expect between a pair of lovers. Very natural. Layering is superb. I can detect changes of artists' distance from the mike - something that is not that easily noticed. Overall, the HD800 and RP010B MKII reproduce the recording in a stunningly life-like manner.
The next CD is a Red book CD "Carol Sloane" by Concord Jazz CCD-4971-2.
What an intimate and expressive voice of Carol Sloane ! The spatial distribution of all instruments around the artist is just almost perfect - imaging is pinpoint precision. The most holographic presentation I have ever heard from headphones. I can hear precisely how she breathes in front of the recording mic !
The natural organic sound of the Rudistor seems a very good match to the HD800. There is no bottle neck in resolution - the source, the amp, allowing the HD800 to show its true capability in revealing the most minute details. It was a very enjoyable evening, and one of excitement too, as I have a first grab of what the HD800 is capable of.
Session 3: 6 July 2009: HD800 + Rudistor RP010B MKII (continued)
Having impressed and satisfied with the RP010B MKII, I decided to stick to this amp and listening to a few more demanding CDs.
This time it is my favourite Red Cliff Capriccio - the equipment challenged K2 HD recording (FIM K2 HD 076) which is technical very “component demanding” recording and therefore a useful tool to test the real capability of a component. For those who are not familiar with this CD, it is essentially an instrument solo recording of a very popular Chinese instrument called “Gushing”, which demands the highest resolving power and speed to reproduce the complicated multiple string movements, the complex harmonics.
Despite I have heard this K2 HD recording many many times, I must say it was revelation listening through the HD800! The ultra sharp imaging, stunning speed, and separation of each musical notes are beyond all I have experienced thus far. The unique reverb from the Guzheng is stunningly life like. This is the first time when the sparkling treble extension is remarkably reproduced through the HD800. And despite the fact that I have listened to this K2 HD recording so many times, it is a totally new experience. Bravo ! I was starting to love the HD800.
The "Happy Coat" Shota Osabe Piano Trio is never disappointing through the HD800. This K2 HD CD by LIM (LIM K2HD 031) demonstrates how well controlled bass can be had through the HD800. Sure the Rudistor RP010MKII also contributes, but the tight and well mannered bass revealed the true talent of Ray Brown. The Trio is always a joy to listen to, but through the HD800 it is more than joy - it was excitement !
Session 4: 7 – 9 July 2009: HD800 vs. Qualia 010
I went back to my beloved Qualia 010. I listened again to my favourite “test CD” Red Cliff Capriccio - the equipment challenged K2 HD recording which is a must to test the real capability of a component. I just want to double check if my jaw dropping experience last night with the HD800 was due to the headphone alone, or just a show case of how the Rudistor RP010B MKII conveyed the music extracted from the Emm Labs CDSA SE.
Last night, having heard the HD800 I almost thought at least half of my headphone collections will no longer make sense to stay my collection.
So came the Qualia. I was not disappointed. In some areas, the Qualia is still better - in resolution, in speed and probably equal in air space compared to the HD800. However, the gaps are narrow ones. It is not something that you can pick up easily. The Qualia also sounds a tad brighter than the very neutral and transparent HD800, especially at the upper treble. But now it would be a good debate whether the Qualia is worth the collector's pricing given the coming of the HD800, which can have at less than half the price of a mint 010, not to mention availability of service and parts for many years to come. Although I am not going to compare comfort of the two headphones, the feather light Qualia is still more comfortable in that after a while I almost forget its presence. The HD800, though very comfortable, did not “disappear” from my head. The rest of the evenings belongs to the Qualia as I went through the other CDs I listening in the last few evenings.
So after all, the HD800 is not that peerless. But I can now say it is the most impressive current production cans I have heard thus far.
I re-listened the "Happy Coat" performed by the Shoat Osabe Piano Trio. The Qualia remains impressive, especially with the bass that this CD has well recorded. First the depth is still there, even a tad deeper than the HD800 for the lowest registry, and the texture seems to be more refined (the relative less hours on the HD800 may also be a factor). Same holographic sound stage, however, not as "real" as the HD800. Definitely a joy to listen to, and in my own, half a notch better than the HD800. On the other hand, the HD800 still sounds more natural than the Qualia as a whole, despite the fact that the Qualia 010 has an edge here and there in different departments.
The next CD to listen is the compilation CD called "Voices - The collection". It is a special 24k Gold CD of ALR Jordan (inak 79010) from Germany and one of the best vocal recordings in my collection. Listening through the Qualia the vocals are just lovely - fluid, intimate, and of course, with the hallmark ultra resolution. But I am most impressed by Track 14 by "A La Carte Brass and Percussion" called "Papa Was a Rolling Stone" - the imaging and holographic sound stage is near perfect and the speed of the Qualia brings the drums to live.
Now I switched back to the HD800 and played "Voices- The Collection" again. Having listened to the Qualia for a whole night the HD800 sounds slightly off-base when I picked it up again. But that soon past. The same track through the HD800 now sounds a bit darker. Sound stage remains excellent but for the first 20 minutes I tend to say that human voices out of the HD800 is a tad less "engaging" than the Qualia 010. The mids seems ever so slightly recessed compared to the Qualia.
Session 5: 10 July 2009 : HD800 + E.A.R. HP-4
Having completely indulged in the magic of the Rudistor RP010B MKII and the HD800 / Qualia, I went back to tubes again. I turned on my all time favourite amp - the EAR HP-4. Due to system setup limitations, the HP-4 was fed from my Naira CDP balanced output. I used a pair of KAS Maestro pure silver balanced IC to connect the two.
The first disc to play is Luqman Hamza's "With This Voice". Mine is a XRCD24 release by Groove Note, and is one of my "test CD" for male vocals. (GRN040016)
Out of the Qualia 010 from the HP-4 / Nagra CDP, the sound is so elegant, tuneful, expressive and engaging. On the other hand, the Qualia does not sound as full bodied as I heard through the Rudistor. Luqman still sound intimate while the instruments were well spaced and layered. But compared to the Rudistor there is a very slight difference in the "density" of the sound I heard from the Qualia. But this is soon behind me as I was sucked into the music !
Listening through the HP-4, the HD800 remains impressive. This was a noted “lushness” when listening through the HP-4, and the body of the music remain very similar to what I heard from the Qualia. The slightly darker sound of HD800 gives a more intimate sense which I prefer when listening to human voices.
Session 6: 11 - 12 July 2009: HD800 + HP-4 with Classical Music
Having heard some demanding instruments, great jazz, and voices, I decided to put the HD800 and HP-4 through some classical music. I picked the Dvorak Symphony No. 9 (Op. 95) published by Esoteric in SACD format. The actual date of recording dated back to 22-24 March 1961. It was a classical recording - one of the best. It is also one of my most favourite performance by Vienna Philharmonic Orchestra.
This is where the HD800 really shines. The speed, the 3-dimensional sound stage, and pinpoint imaging were jaw dropping. I was floored by the “greatness” of how the HD800 sounded. Though being a tube amp, the HP-4 adds very little to colour the sound. Rather, it exerts precision control of the HD800 like no other did. The whole performance was extremely enjoyable to my ears and this is where the HD800 outperforms the Qualia - not be a huge margin, but noticeably. I repeated the same CD 3 times, and yes, the HD800 is definitely better.
After a short break, I inserted "Just Friends" by LA4 - a favourite jazz team of mine. It is the SACD version published by Groove Note (GRV1016-3) of the original Concord Jazz recording in 1978.
Once again, the HD800 was there to impress and convince. I was extremely impressed by how the HD800 reproduces the bass played by Ray Brown, and decodes the fast guitar of Laredo Almeida next to him. Sure the recording has been one of the very best, but it is the HD800 that delivers all that is there - in spades. So, far, I am convinced for voices, jazz, and classical, the HP-4 has demonstrated a lot of synergy with the HD800 and I am pretty sure there are of the best pair out there. Session 7: 13-14 July 2009: HD800 + Amphora SE
I haven’t forgotten my little Amphora SE – the little gem that housed the Red Wine Audio's famed headphone module, introduced earlier this year by Ken of Audio Lineout. Compared to the "standard" Amphora, the SE (special edition, total 10 will be made) uses more exotic bird’s eye wood casing and cotton insulated silver internal wiring. I connected the Amphora SE to the single end output of my Nagra CDP, through a pair of Crystal Cable Reference interconnect, and switched the amp to high gain mode.
The CD used was “Quardro Nuevo's Buongiorno Tristezza”, a CD made in Germany (Skip 9005-2) which is another favourite of my romantic south European jazz. Recording is amongst the top of audiophile production. Linking the equipment was a pair of Crystal Cable Reference Interconnect.
Listening to the Quadra Nuevo's Buongiorno Tristezza CD through the HD800 hooked to the Amphora is a different experience. The combination sounds cleaner, carries less weight, but very neutral. There is no loss of resolution but the overall sound is just a tad leaner than what I heard from the EAR HP-4. If I do not compare, the Amphora is already sounding very good. It does not hold back the sound stage that the HD800 is capable of. In fact, I think the silver internal wiring of the Amphora did add more air / openness to the music. All these resulted in a very romantic musical picture that removed all the stress after a long working day. It is really joyful to listen to this combo and the HD800 matches the Amphora very well. But against the EAR HP4, I must admit the EAR HP4 easily offers a better sound to my ears – in all departments. That little additional weight and emotions in the music through the HD800-HP4 combo is, I believe, what make the HP4 such a classic in headphone amp. Instead of just conveying the emotions, the HP4/HD800 combo seems to have its way to supplement the expression. It was nearly like communication at spiritual level.
With the Amphora/HD800 continuing as the pair, I listen to another CD - this one is special - it is the K2 HD version of Salena Jones famed "Ballad with LUV." produced from 99.9999% silver CD - one of the latest release from LIM (LIM K2HD 042). It was some touching moments listening to Selena telling her stories through the intimate and sensational expressions of her truth telling voices. It was an intimate experience. I believed the K2HD premastering art has a part to play to that super-real experience, but the faithful reproduction of the Amphora / HD800 combo must have played a key role to make this happen.
CD: "Brothers in Blues" by Wolfgang Bernreuther and Rudi Bayer. (Clearaudio CD 43040). This is a remarkably well recorded CD from Clear Audio in Germany.
The pleasure of listening to the Amphora SE / HD800 combo continued. Honestly, had it not because of this intensive comparative listening in the whole past week I would have been very contended with what I heard. The voice of Wolfgang was intimate, and the bass played by Rudi Bayer is even so well controlled and right proportioned through this combo, that what I heard is like a small private live chamber performance. I repeat the whole CD twice, almost forgetting that I was attempting to assess how well the HD800 works with different amps. I have no more notes to write. I was inside the music already.
Session 8: 15 July 2009: HD800 + Phonitor
I spend the evening going through the last arrangement to listening to the HD800. Time passed fast and I will have to return this beloved headphone to its owner soon.
The setup is slightly different from the previous ones, as I want to have a more revealing arrangement made from my available resources.
Transport : Nagra CDP
DAC : Chord QBD76 (AES input, balanced out)
Headphone Amp: SPL Phonitor (balanced in)
Interconnect: Kimber Select KS-1121 (balanced)
I turned to a new but very special CD for this listening session. "Uncompressed World Vol. 1" is one very special CD which was jointly produced by Accustic Arts and Schunk Audio Engineering (SAE), and was just released in July 2009. It was produced with one objective, to achieve zero loss in the mastering process, and the result of a team of very seasoned professionals representing some of the best in Europe.
For more information, see this Accustic Arts - Audiophile Recording
Having listened to this CD I am pretty sure this will set a new benchmark for evaluation of reference level audiophile systems. On the Phonitor, I turned on speaker angles, cross feed, but turn off centre speaker.
Initially, I was worried about it is going to be an overly analytical session, and I was so wrong !
Once again, the Phonitor played its “truth teller” role faithfully and pumped as much information as it can passed on from the super-revealing front-end setup. The HD800 never has an “information flooding” problem. The HD800 simply reconstruct music in the way it should sound regardless how much information one wants to push through it. And the “Uncompressed World Vole 1” is really a stunning CD – the intensity, the resolution, the weight, the imaging, and soundstage are all likely new benchmarks against which many others will find hard to replicate. The whole setup was another revelation. For a while, I am no longer hearing the headphone, the amp, the source. It is almost like I was there right at the performance, inside the studio. Nothing can be more real than this, and on the first listen it was a scary experience. I repeat the same CD 3 times, and I remained impressed more than ever.
Concluding Remarks
First of all, I must express my heart felt thanks to the original owner of this HD800. Listening to it with different amps and source combinations has been an ear-opening experience. Unfortunately due to the relatively limited time I was not able to try other combinations. Yet, with all these listening hours under my belt I now have much better idea of the characteristics and behaviour of the HD800.
Beyond doubt, the HD800 and the Phonitor made a great pair to deliver the ultimate joy in headphone listening. But it is also worth saying that the setup scales remarkably well with the quality of the recording. And though we are talking about headphones and headphone amps only, I must say this new reference CD from Acoustic Arts has left me in awe for quite some time.
I am also deeply impressed by the Rudistor RP010B MKII driving the HD800. Honestly, this Rudistor baby has been on the cold bench for some days and I am pleasantly surprised the synergy it has with the HD800, which create on of the best sounding combination I have ever heard.
Although the Amphora SE – HD800 combo did not end up as the best combination during these listening sessions, we have to know it is also the “cheapest” amp compared to the others I used. As such, I would say the Amphora SE – HD800 a very good value desktop combo – bringing ultimate audio satisfaction without breaking your wallet.
The EAR HP-4 holds its own when pairing with the HD800, and remains one of the most “respected” amp in my collection. I am simply amazed at what the HP-4 achieved with the HD800 and am certain this little marvel from EAR will continue to stand the test of time to come. It is not going anywhere.
Looking back, I should have tried the HD800 with my Woo Audio 5 again, possibly with different tubes combinations. First, the early hours of HD800 with the WA5 is apparently too short that I have yet to get used to its sound signature. Second, I am not sure if my current tube combinations are the best match for the headphone. I tend to believe a pair of metal base GZ34 may help provide a more neutral sound at some slight expense of the bass quantity. The KR300B Globe tubes have been doing a decent job but that also left me wondering what the sound could have been with my beloved AVVT C37 bottles. And then there are the whole variety of 6SN7 tubes that can present some many possibilities.
Source will be an important part of the audio chain if one choose to use a HD800, which scales exceptionally well with the quality of the source and the recording materials. Although the Emm Labs CDSA SE is a pretty good source, when playing redbook CDs, especially those with enhanced, SOTA mastering technology, the Nagra CDP still stands out as more analogue, natural sounding, though by only a small margin. I was floored by the Nagra CDP + Chord QBD 76 combo in rendering the most detailed, neutral and yet coherent sound feed into the Phonitor+HD800. Those were my best hours listening to the HD800.
Given more time, I should be able to compare how the HD800 against the rest of my collection – the Grado HP1-3, PS-1, the Edition 9, and my upcoming Edition 8. I am particularly interested at a comparison with the HP1000s and PS-1 since to some extent the HD800 share some common traits with these prestigious Joseph Grado’s creations. I won’t consider a head-on comparison with the L3000 as they are very different headphones in my opinion, so A/B comparison will not make too much sense given the very different characters between them.
So, having now heard the HD800 I tend to think my original worries of dull, boring music were unfounded. I have now determined to get one as soon as Sennheiser have sorted out its quality issues. Given its capability in single-ended setup, I just can’t help to wonder how much better the HD800 could have been in balanced configuration. And with this, Alex (of Apuresound), you have a pending order from me !
Before closing, let me just say the HD800 is definitely the best sounding current production headphone I have heard to-date. I do not know how it compares with the Edition 8 (which I will have one when Alex is done recabling it ), nor will I have a clue how the PS-1000 compares. But for the time being, it is definitely the king of headphone you will find in the shop today.
I hope you enjoy this read... and have a nice day.
F. Lo 800。。。psk。。。:Q 原帖由 mifeng 于 2009-7-20 09:16 发表 http://bbs.headphoneclub.com/images/common/back.gif
800。。。psk。。。:Q
想去耳机店打工，哈哈…… 的確, 有說香港其中一個已經聽過 ed8, hd800, ps1000 的人, 就是某耳機店的員工呢. 建议PKSHAN来学习 这才叫玩HD800 否则不如老老实实玩好HD6XX:lol ;P
话说HD6XX上这个前端也算不上过于奢侈;P HD800 的透明自然讓我神往,看来声场也是一个明显的优势,但是感觉bass似乎偏少 不会吧，HD600的BASS在HD800面前，简直不算是BASS:lol :lol :lol 那一其的 hd600?
